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	<title>Comments on: Commentary: Ginko Financial is Either Fraudulently or Negligently Managed</title>
	<atom:link href="http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/</link>
	<description>Legal Issues That Impact Virtual Worlds</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 04:03:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kapitalismus 2.0 : Burks&#8217; Blog</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-15234</link>
		<dc:creator>Kapitalismus 2.0 : Burks&#8217; Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-15234</guid>
		<description>[...] wenn Bank draufsteht. Das mussten viele Nutzer der digitalen Welt Second Life schmerzlich erfahren: Gingko Financial, die bekannteste &#8220;Bank&#8221;, löste sich im September spurlos auf. 200 Millionen der [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wenn Bank draufsteht. Das mussten viele Nutzer der digitalen Welt Second Life schmerzlich erfahren: Gingko Financial, die bekannteste &#8220;Bank&#8221;, löste sich im September spurlos auf. 200 Millionen der [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nobody Fugazi</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7311</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody Fugazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7311</guid>
		<description>Hinoserm - thanks for your response. Your response in 36, all numbers but particularly &#039;5&#039; which included the word &#039;insulted&#039;, seems to be a complaint w.r.t. speculation. You may say that you did not write it as such, but it easily reads as such.

The &#039;speculation intrigues me&#039; bit is a bit much, but I&#039;m glad you wrote your mind. For the record, I didn&#039;t really see much point in speculating on you because it seemed apparent that you and Nicholas were separate for various reasons. It is good that you gained some enjoyment from people speculating on you, however I must submit to you that the speculation was probably not enjoyable for them. The &#039;toying&#039; aspect of what you wrote - whether you meant it or not - comes across as derisive. 

And just as this all died down, you posted a comment again. Now, to me, that is amusing. 

So what is your next business, Hinoserm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hinoserm &#8211; thanks for your response. Your response in 36, all numbers but particularly &#8217;5&#8242; which included the word &#8216;insulted&#8217;, seems to be a complaint w.r.t. speculation. You may say that you did not write it as such, but it easily reads as such.</p>
<p>The &#8216;speculation intrigues me&#8217; bit is a bit much, but I&#8217;m glad you wrote your mind. For the record, I didn&#8217;t really see much point in speculating on you because it seemed apparent that you and Nicholas were separate for various reasons. It is good that you gained some enjoyment from people speculating on you, however I must submit to you that the speculation was probably not enjoyable for them. The &#8216;toying&#8217; aspect of what you wrote &#8211; whether you meant it or not &#8211; comes across as derisive. </p>
<p>And just as this all died down, you posted a comment again. Now, to me, that is amusing. </p>
<p>So what is your next business, Hinoserm?</p>
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		<title>By: Hinoserm Rebus</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7277</link>
		<dc:creator>Hinoserm Rebus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7277</guid>
		<description>Benjamin: I would be happy to.

1) Essentially, for the time being, yes. Technically, Nicholas does still have administrative access to Ginko Financial, although the dataset was corrupted when it was hurrily readied to move to WSE, so it doesn&#039;t do much good; I would need to make several repairs before Ginko Financial (or at least it&#039;s software) could be usable again.  Ethical issues aside, there was some talk between us (me and Nicholas) to re-open Ginko Financial under the same management, possibly reintegrating old account/bond holders, or possibly starting from scratch.  I don&#039;t believe this is actually going to happen, however.

2) This is actually three questions, so I&#039;ll break them into three different points;

A) Nicholas and I met back in Riiki (SecondLife region) way back when I was just starting in Second Life.  My group (Ginko Technologies, then known as GinkoTech Engineering in SL) owned some land there, and we had built a skyscraper-type building for playing around with.  Nicholas had flown over one day to look at it, and we started talking; apparently he had learned how to make clothing in SL, and I had commissioned a few things from him.  One thing led to another, and he ended up renting one of the smaller parcels we had (though I don&#039;t think he ever actually remembered to pay rent, which was fine) to play with SL&#039;s building tools, and we just became friends over time.

B) I have never spoken to Nick outside of SL or AIM (AOL Instant Messager), which is about the same for most of my friends.  Although I tried to get him into a voice chat once, he never wanted to, and to this day I still want to hear his voice.

C) We haven&#039;t spoken much since the decision to close down Ginko Financial, though I wouldn&#039;t say we&#039;re on bad terms.  Granted, I also wouldn&#039;t say we&#039;re on the best of terms; this whole ordeal has left me with alot of bills to pay and has left me again questioning my trust in people, but I still consider Nicholas a friend.

Nobody: I&#039;m not sure I understand your comment.  It&#039;s not my intention to &quot;fail to disclose&quot;, nor have I &quot;complained of the speculation&quot;.  If you have taken my comments to be sarcastic in manner, you&#039;re mistaken.  I have no problems with speculation or disclosure, and I&#039;ll try to answer any questions I see fit for public knowledge.  Speculation intrigues me, and it&#039;s enjoyable to see what people can learn (or think they&#039;ve learned) about me on their own.

-Hinoserm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benjamin: I would be happy to.</p>
<p>1) Essentially, for the time being, yes. Technically, Nicholas does still have administrative access to Ginko Financial, although the dataset was corrupted when it was hurrily readied to move to WSE, so it doesn&#8217;t do much good; I would need to make several repairs before Ginko Financial (or at least it&#8217;s software) could be usable again.  Ethical issues aside, there was some talk between us (me and Nicholas) to re-open Ginko Financial under the same management, possibly reintegrating old account/bond holders, or possibly starting from scratch.  I don&#8217;t believe this is actually going to happen, however.</p>
<p>2) This is actually three questions, so I&#8217;ll break them into three different points;</p>
<p>A) Nicholas and I met back in Riiki (SecondLife region) way back when I was just starting in Second Life.  My group (Ginko Technologies, then known as GinkoTech Engineering in SL) owned some land there, and we had built a skyscraper-type building for playing around with.  Nicholas had flown over one day to look at it, and we started talking; apparently he had learned how to make clothing in SL, and I had commissioned a few things from him.  One thing led to another, and he ended up renting one of the smaller parcels we had (though I don&#8217;t think he ever actually remembered to pay rent, which was fine) to play with SL&#8217;s building tools, and we just became friends over time.</p>
<p>B) I have never spoken to Nick outside of SL or AIM (AOL Instant Messager), which is about the same for most of my friends.  Although I tried to get him into a voice chat once, he never wanted to, and to this day I still want to hear his voice.</p>
<p>C) We haven&#8217;t spoken much since the decision to close down Ginko Financial, though I wouldn&#8217;t say we&#8217;re on bad terms.  Granted, I also wouldn&#8217;t say we&#8217;re on the best of terms; this whole ordeal has left me with alot of bills to pay and has left me again questioning my trust in people, but I still consider Nicholas a friend.</p>
<p>Nobody: I&#8217;m not sure I understand your comment.  It&#8217;s not my intention to &#8220;fail to disclose&#8221;, nor have I &#8220;complained of the speculation&#8221;.  If you have taken my comments to be sarcastic in manner, you&#8217;re mistaken.  I have no problems with speculation or disclosure, and I&#8217;ll try to answer any questions I see fit for public knowledge.  Speculation intrigues me, and it&#8217;s enjoyable to see what people can learn (or think they&#8217;ve learned) about me on their own.</p>
<p>-Hinoserm</p>
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		<title>By: Nobody Fugazi</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7259</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody Fugazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7259</guid>
		<description>Ahh, I&#039;m wounded Hinoserm. I never claimed you were the same person as Nicholas, and I&#039;ve actually been nice in my writing of you. I never called you a college kid. Hmm. OK. I&#039;m not wounded, but it certainly has a dramatic touch. I know why you really posted here, as do you.

That said, *thank you* for posting here, or anywhere for that matter. I can respect someone who stands up - that you are the only one who has done so convincingly. Would that this sort of post had been done months ago...

But as an autodidact - I am one as well - you must appreciate that this should be a learning experience for you. When you fail to disclose, you open yourself up to speculation. 

To then complain of the speculation is folly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, I&#8217;m wounded Hinoserm. I never claimed you were the same person as Nicholas, and I&#8217;ve actually been nice in my writing of you. I never called you a college kid. Hmm. OK. I&#8217;m not wounded, but it certainly has a dramatic touch. I know why you really posted here, as do you.</p>
<p>That said, *thank you* for posting here, or anywhere for that matter. I can respect someone who stands up &#8211; that you are the only one who has done so convincingly. Would that this sort of post had been done months ago&#8230;</p>
<p>But as an autodidact &#8211; I am one as well &#8211; you must appreciate that this should be a learning experience for you. When you fail to disclose, you open yourself up to speculation. </p>
<p>To then complain of the speculation is folly.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Duranske</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7199</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Duranske</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7199</guid>
		<description>Hinoserm - thanks for posting.  If you don&#039;t mind answering a few more questions, I&#039;m really curious about a couple of things based on your note.

1) Have you, essentially, revoked the license for the software, etc. that you had given Nicholas?  

2) How did you come to know Nicholas/Andre?  Have you ever spoken to him directly?  Are you still communicating with him? 

Finally, since I know passions can run high on this issue, I want to say this: I appreciate the fact that Hinoserm is posting here, and if he&#039;s willing to take questions in comments to this piece (I&#039;m hopeful he will) I&#039;ll thank everybody in advance for keeping the discourse as civil as it usually is on &lt;i&gt;VB&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hinoserm &#8211; thanks for posting.  If you don&#8217;t mind answering a few more questions, I&#8217;m really curious about a couple of things based on your note.</p>
<p>1) Have you, essentially, revoked the license for the software, etc. that you had given Nicholas?  </p>
<p>2) How did you come to know Nicholas/Andre?  Have you ever spoken to him directly?  Are you still communicating with him? </p>
<p>Finally, since I know passions can run high on this issue, I want to say this: I appreciate the fact that Hinoserm is posting here, and if he&#8217;s willing to take questions in comments to this piece (I&#8217;m hopeful he will) I&#8217;ll thank everybody in advance for keeping the discourse as civil as it usually is on <i>VB</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Hinoserm Rebus</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7170</link>
		<dc:creator>Hinoserm Rebus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-7170</guid>
		<description>Allow me to add some additional information regarding some of the comments I&#039;ve seen here:

1) Normand Lew on Mendon Rd is my uncle, with whom I have lived on and off for several years.  Whilst you are free to call the number listed on my domain(s), don&#039;t expect the messages to be relayed to me properly, as it requires two or three different people to get them to me.

2) My whois information has never been -- nor never will -- be made private.  I do not trust handing over ownership or control of my domains to another party (which, as I understand, is the only way to make that information &quot;private&quot; without breaking several rules), reputable or otherwise. I also do not desire to hide my identity.  If my whois information is being shown as private or 3rd party, please notify me immediately, as it is not authorized, and I will bring it to the attention of the registrar.

3) I own ginkofinancial.com (the domain), including all of the Ginko Financial software, equipment, and data stored upon said equipment.  The understanding between me and Nicholas when I agreed to write and maintain the software for him is that all payment made to me would be for the limited license to use the name, software, and equipment -- not for exclusive rights or ownership of them.  It was also part of our understanding that I wouldn&#039;t share information he gave to me during the design of the software unless I was told to do otherwise, and it was my request that he not tell me more than I absolutely needed to know to do my job, because frankly, it&#039;s a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that I really don&#039;t care about.

4) To those who question that Nicholas and I are seperate people, I find it intriguing and very enjoyable to watch your debates.  It is interesting that people believe I could have single-handledly played the role of (what could ultimately amass to) several hundred different people, running what I have read here as &quot;most of the scams that happen on Second Life&quot;.  

5) I am insulted that (else-article) I have been linked to &quot;college students&quot; of the same name as me -- I do not have a complete high school education, let alone a collage education -- and am fairly proud of the knowledge I&#039;ve gained on my own.

Since this is the only article I&#039;ve found so far that I&#039;ve enjoyed reading (and partially because I spoke to Benjamin in SecondLife briefly and thought he was a cool guy), it will probably remain the only one I&#039;ll be leaving comments on.

Feel free to copy, maim, fold, spindle, or multilate the above text to fit your particular side of any debate, story, etc.  Be aware that I may do the same to any communications sent to me regarding these matters or this comment.

-Hinoserm Rebus (Michael Pratte)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me to add some additional information regarding some of the comments I&#8217;ve seen here:</p>
<p>1) Normand Lew on Mendon Rd is my uncle, with whom I have lived on and off for several years.  Whilst you are free to call the number listed on my domain(s), don&#8217;t expect the messages to be relayed to me properly, as it requires two or three different people to get them to me.</p>
<p>2) My whois information has never been &#8212; nor never will &#8212; be made private.  I do not trust handing over ownership or control of my domains to another party (which, as I understand, is the only way to make that information &#8220;private&#8221; without breaking several rules), reputable or otherwise. I also do not desire to hide my identity.  If my whois information is being shown as private or 3rd party, please notify me immediately, as it is not authorized, and I will bring it to the attention of the registrar.</p>
<p>3) I own ginkofinancial.com (the domain), including all of the Ginko Financial software, equipment, and data stored upon said equipment.  The understanding between me and Nicholas when I agreed to write and maintain the software for him is that all payment made to me would be for the limited license to use the name, software, and equipment &#8212; not for exclusive rights or ownership of them.  It was also part of our understanding that I wouldn&#8217;t share information he gave to me during the design of the software unless I was told to do otherwise, and it was my request that he not tell me more than I absolutely needed to know to do my job, because frankly, it&#8217;s a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that I really don&#8217;t care about.</p>
<p>4) To those who question that Nicholas and I are seperate people, I find it intriguing and very enjoyable to watch your debates.  It is interesting that people believe I could have single-handledly played the role of (what could ultimately amass to) several hundred different people, running what I have read here as &#8220;most of the scams that happen on Second Life&#8221;.  </p>
<p>5) I am insulted that (else-article) I have been linked to &#8220;college students&#8221; of the same name as me &#8212; I do not have a complete high school education, let alone a collage education &#8212; and am fairly proud of the knowledge I&#8217;ve gained on my own.</p>
<p>Since this is the only article I&#8217;ve found so far that I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading (and partially because I spoke to Benjamin in SecondLife briefly and thought he was a cool guy), it will probably remain the only one I&#8217;ll be leaving comments on.</p>
<p>Feel free to copy, maim, fold, spindle, or multilate the above text to fit your particular side of any debate, story, etc.  Be aware that I may do the same to any communications sent to me regarding these matters or this comment.</p>
<p>-Hinoserm Rebus (Michael Pratte)</p>
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		<title>By: drtomaso</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5109</link>
		<dc:creator>drtomaso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5109</guid>
		<description>Woah... and East West Marketing appears (at least by the link) to be a broker/dealer, bringing a whole gamut of securities law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woah&#8230; and East West Marketing appears (at least by the link) to be a broker/dealer, bringing a whole gamut of securities law.</p>
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		<title>By: J van Maurik</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5097</link>
		<dc:creator>J van Maurik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5097</guid>
		<description>You guys did not deep enough on the ginkosoft.com domain.

There is a tel. # listed in the GoDaddy whois.

According to Switchboard.com and Google it is listed to:

&quot;Normand Lew
  (401) 658-0784
  3574 Mendon Rd,  Cumberland, RI 02864
&quot;

When you Google on that name, you will find:

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_82s87

&quot;East West Marketing Inc
3574 Mendon Rd, Cumberland, RI 02864-2127, United States  (Map) (Add Company Info)
Phone: (401) 658-0784&quot;
and
&quot;
Contact Name:Normand Lew

Contact Title:Partner&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys did not deep enough on the ginkosoft.com domain.</p>
<p>There is a tel. # listed in the GoDaddy whois.</p>
<p>According to Switchboard.com and Google it is listed to:</p>
<p>&#8220;Normand Lew<br />
  (401) 658-0784<br />
  3574 Mendon Rd,  Cumberland, RI 02864<br />
&#8221;</p>
<p>When you Google on that name, you will find:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_82s87" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/www.manta.com');">http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_82s87</a></p>
<p>&#8220;East West Marketing Inc<br />
3574 Mendon Rd, Cumberland, RI 02864-2127, United States  (Map) (Add Company Info)<br />
Phone: (401) 658-0784&#8243;<br />
and<br />
&#8221;<br />
Contact Name:Normand Lew</p>
<p>Contact Title:Partner&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Virtually Blind - Virtual Law &#124; Legal Issues That Impact Virtual Worlds &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Commentary: Ginko Wrapup - No AVIX, IPO, or Funds</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5090</link>
		<dc:creator>Virtually Blind - Virtual Law &#124; Legal Issues That Impact Virtual Worlds &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Commentary: Ginko Wrapup - No AVIX, IPO, or Funds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5090</guid>
		<description>[...] In the transcript below, we learn that Ginko has basically no money to pay depositors, that AVIX&#8217;s &#8216;Investor Allen&#8217; claims he doesn&#8217;t think that a company promising 60% returns is paying old investors with new investors&#8217; money, and (in answer to one of my questions, thank you very much) that &#8216;Nicholas Portocarrero&#8217; is really a guy in Brazil named Andre.  [Ed. Note: Or maybe not, there&#8217;s some reasonable debate about even that name, now.] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In the transcript below, we learn that Ginko has basically no money to pay depositors, that AVIX&#8217;s &#8216;Investor Allen&#8217; claims he doesn&#8217;t think that a company promising 60% returns is paying old investors with new investors&#8217; money, and (in answer to one of my questions, thank you very much) that &#8216;Nicholas Portocarrero&#8217; is really a guy in Brazil named Andre.  [Ed. Note: Or maybe not, there&#8217;s some reasonable debate about even that name, now.] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Duranske</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5010</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Duranske</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/07/28/commentary-ginko-financial-is-a-fraud/#comment-5010</guid>
		<description>And of course, the first thing any lawyer who brings a suit here will do is subpoena the identities of both of them from Linden Lab.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And of course, the first thing any lawyer who brings a suit here will do is subpoena the identities of both of them from Linden Lab.</p>
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