[20:04] Nicholas Portocarrero: YOu all know two things: 1) Ginko is experiencing liquidity problems, and 2) Ginko is running an IPO
[20:04] Gordon Wendt: even though they've done nothing to deserve the break
[20:05] Gordon Wendt: sorry, didn't know you were starting NIck
[20:05] ServMe Nakamura: Gordon, I wasn't trying to make ISE look good, I was just stating a fact :)
[20:05] TrainingDay Trimble is Online
[20:05] Nicholas Portocarrero: The IPO is part of the process of a deal I have worked out with Allen, in order to acquire AVIX
[20:06] Legolas Delgado: !
[20:06] Curt Kongo is Offline
[20:06] Arnaud Villota: stunned silence.
[20:06] Nicholas Portocarrero: can people way in the back hear me from here?
[20:06] Gordon Wendt cleans his ears
[20:06] Benjamin Noble can, is just appalled.
[20:06] IntLibber Brautigan: everybody move up if you can't hear
[20:06] ServMe Nakamura: Ginko will acquire AVIX? What happened to the preferred partner HCL/WSE?
[20:06] Gordon Wendt: did you just say you were acquiring avix?
[20:07] Umphrey Sachs: I showered today..ya'll safe
[20:07] Cheyenne Newman: gasp
[20:07] IntLibber Brautigan: I think this is great
[20:07] Wellington Philbin: /gasp
[20:07] Madelena BnT: This is awesome
[20:07] Ashleigh Wade: i agree
[20:07] Madelena BnT: Can you shed any light on this deal?
[20:08] Kaddan Yue: can not hear
[20:08] Investor Allen: I assure everyone, that the move made by Ginko Financial is one that is going to effect everyone positively. Its something Nicholas and I spent a good amount of time working with, and overall, there isnt anyone that should lose out in this deal.
[20:08] Nicholas Portocarrero: The deal is essentialy a merger. Initialy, balances will not be carried over from one to the other and AVIX's cash will not be used to finance withdrawals from GInko
[20:08] ServMe Nakamura: then why this sudden extra IPO and merger?
[20:09] Arnaud Villota: and what do you mean by initially?
[20:09] Nicholas Portocarrero: So AVIX customers have no need to fear that they will be unable to withdraw their balances as AVIX will essentialy stay as it is for now
[20:09] 7736237 Paine: so who has controlling interest in AVIX and Ginko?
[20:10] Nicholas Portocarrero: Allen, can you explain what your role will be?
[20:10] Investor Allen: Certainly
[20:10] Jessica Holyoke: And what would be the planned changes?
[20:11] Nicholas Portocarrero: can the questions be left for later?
[20:11] Nicholas Portocarrero: otherwise they will get lost in the text jungle
[20:12] Investor Allen: The move we have made today is not a hostile takeover, or anything of the sort. It is a deal that has been made by to leaders in their industry to further advance the SL economy as it stands. Second Life is an amazing place, and to see things like the current events at the World Stock Exchange saddens us all. We need to work together, and Nicholas and I working together is something that works well for everyone. The deal allows Ginko Financial to acquire a controlling hold in Allenvest International Exchange, Allenvest Investment Capital (AIC) will still control a large amount of shares in AVIX, and because of that, I will continue to take a large role in the operation and further advancement of AVIX. Certain things you have seen in the last week such as increased regulation, and a strong bond with the SLEC will continue.
[20:13] Nicholas Portocarrero: Someone asked about the WSE/HCL
[20:14] Benjamin Noble: Question: Does this mean that Ginko will be able to cover immediate deposits, or is this merely another shell game? It doesn't appear to be creating any new money, and I don't see how a company with insufficient cash to pay its own obligations can buy another.
[20:14] Investor Allen: I will work together with Nicholas to take the AVIX exchange from where it is now, to the great levels that it can acheive. Nicholas' team will begin to cover items such as customer support, allowing me to focus on the improvement and advancement of the exchange. I will also continue to work with Ginko and my design team to design a combination software peice that can be used to combine Ginko and AVIX in the futre.
[20:14] Benjamin Noble: Can ginko better cover its deposits than it was able to before 10 minutes ago?
[20:15] Nicholas Portocarrero: Our relationship with them does not fundamentaly change. We (Ginko) are still shareholders, which is what we have always been. I do not have any ill feeling towards Luke, and wish him good luck with his business, however, AVIX is something we are taking a direct role in.
[20:15] Benjamin Noble: Can Ginko better cover its deposits than it was able to before 10 minutes ago?
[20:16] Nicholas Portocarrero: It's withdraws you mean?
[20:17] Nicholas Portocarrero: The situation in terms of liquidyt has not changed fundamentaly
[20:17] Benjamin Noble: Well, the depositors are trying to withdraw, but that's a matter of semantics. Do you have more money than you did out of this? I can't see how, since you're acquiring something.
[20:17] Benjamin Noble: So how is this good for AVIX again?
[20:17] Nicholas Portocarrero: Allen?
[20:18] Benjamin Noble: And wait, let's before we do that, just do the specifics. How, exactly, is Ginko acquiring AVIX. What is changing hands?
[20:18] You decline SL Reports Site Launcher v2 from A group member named Xavier Mohr.
[20:18] Nicholas Portocarrero: We are exchanging certain iliquid assets along with a stake in GInko Financial itself for AVIX
[20:18] Benjamin Noble: What in exchange for what?
[20:19] Benjamin Noble: Okay. What assets?
[20:19] Benjamin Noble: What illiquid assets?
[20:19] Umphrey Sachs: Sexual favors don't count.
[20:19] Cheyenne Newman: rats
[20:19] Investor Allen: AVIX is working hard at becoming the leading exchange in Second Life, the key to this is strong growth. By working with Ginko it will open up avix to thousands of registered client and cement AVIX as the leading exchange in Second Life. It will also give us further resources to develop our rleationship with the SLEC and continue to increase the quality of this exchange.
[20:19] Maelstrom Baphomet: I have folks locked out requesting transcripts, someone taking notes?
[20:19] Dimitri Gasser: so basically, ginko is taking all of allens avix shares, and in return, giving him ginko shares?
[20:19] Benjamin Noble: I'll post it after.
[20:20] Cheyenne Newman: yes Mael I have
[20:20] IntLibber Brautigan: what do you mean locked out Mael?
[20:20] Dimitri Gasser: ginko owns avix, allens a part o ginko?
[20:20] Cheyenne Newman: sim is full
[20:20] Eben Slade: I'm taking notes.
[20:20] Maelstrom Baphomet: Sim's at capcity
[20:20] IntLibber Brautigan: sim agent limit has been increased
[20:20] IntLibber Brautigan: tell em to come in
[20:20] Nicholas Portocarrero: We previously held several million in AIC term deposits
[20:21] Nicholas Portocarrero: But the builk of it is ginko financial group shares
[20:22] Arnaud Villota: will this happen before the IPO completes or is it happening now?
[20:23] Investor Allen: The process has already begun, and will continue to happen for a time to come.
[20:23] Nicholas Portocarrero: The IPO fulfilles the cash part of the deal.
[20:24] Benjamin Noble: Wait, Nicholas - you mean that Allen gets the 5 million Linden you are hoping to raise by IPO?
[20:24] Investor Allen: we plan to full resdesign the AVIX/Ginko Software Engines over the next 90 days and Myself and Nicholas will both be part of this. Although this is a change, many things will remain the same as well.
[20:24] Nicholas Portocarrero: If it does not get filled, for whatever reason, the deal does not go forward
[20:24] Jessica Holyoke: so the IPO on AVIX generates the capital to buyout AVIX?
[20:24] Nicholas Portocarrero: The cash capital, yes.
[20:25] Benjamin Noble: Then Allen - you value AVIX at 5m Linden right now?
[20:25] Arnaud Villota: waita minute, you just said it was basically a stock swap.
[20:25] Legolas Delgado: HE values his majority stake at 5m
[20:25] Benjamin Noble: And more importantly, do either of you really think that Ginko can raise 5m in an IPO?
[20:25] 7736237 Paine: excluding AVIX will any subsidiary of AIC (eg AFB) be affected with the merge..also, who will maintain the AVIX investor funds?
[20:26] Jessica Holyoke: so AVIX is worth more than L$5mil
[20:26] Investor Allen: Let me explain the terms of the deal a little more clearly.
[20:27] Rixhawz Milestone: ya think?
[20:28] Investor Allen: AVIX has been sold to Ginko, for a small cash amount, and a number of shares in GFG. The IPO being held by Ginko will help to fund that small cash amount, and also be the beginning of providing relief for the liquidyt problems that Ginko is having.
[20:28] Dimitri Gasser: what happens in the event the ginko ipo does not fill? its in a horrible position now with its liquid :$, i cant imagine ginko being able to pay allen and not be able to cover its depositors withdrawls. ... also do you not think its slightly wrong to be launching an ipo to facilitate a buyout when you currently cant cover withdrawls.
[20:28] Marc Attenborough: its sounds to me like Ginko is refinancing it's debt, so to speak
[20:29] 7736237 Paine: so the AVIX board nominations, they're basically out the window?
[20:29] Investor Allen: We strongly feel the IPO will fill. If it does not, as stated before the deal will not continue through.
[20:29] Jessica Holyoke: then the IPO capital would go to the liquid assets?
[20:29] IntLibber Brautigan: I expect once our orientation island opens that a flood of capital will refresh the SL capital markets
[20:29] Madelena BnT: It is acquiring a financially viable exchange. That seems to be to be worth the investment
[20:29] Benjamin Noble: Nicholas - will Ginko remain listed in AVIX -- an exchange it owns -- after this deal is complete, on the chance that it does?
[20:30] Investor Allen: WE announced several weeks ago that the AVIX board members will be those with the highest shareholdings. I imagine this will continue here.
[20:30] Nicholas Portocarrero: Why wouldn't it Benjamin?
[20:30] Benjamin Noble: Silly me. I was thinking there might be a conflict.
[20:30] Investor Allen: I have to agree with Madalena, the purchase that Ginko is making without outlying a large amount of cash is invaluable to this company.
[20:30] Nicholas Portocarrero: AVIX is already listed in AVIX
[20:31] Benjamin Noble: True that. No problem there either, of course.
[20:31] Mark Assia: Do you have a time-table for a complete merger of Ginko and AVIX if the IPO is successful?
[20:31] Maelstrom Baphomet: If you discount the liquidity issue as a potentially temporary flux, the 6000 accoutns gained by a hybrid of Ginko and Avix stands to be potentially powerful and lucrative.
[20:31] Investor Allen: I can honestly say I have a lot of faith in Ginko Financial, I was willing to accept shares instead of cash as the majority of this sale and that says a lot for my confidence in this company.
[20:31] Maelstrom Baphomet: Consider also that Ginko's atms are all acros sl.
[20:31] Investor Allen: 90 Days Mark. You will begin to see certain features take effect within 30.
[20:32] Jessica Holyoke: so will future plans be that I can trade on AVIX using any ginko ATM?
[20:32] Maelstrom Baphomet: The compounded growth of AVIX would be incredible. I think this is a huge risk, but it's viable.
[20:32] Investor Allen: Correct, yes Jessica
[20:32] Madelena BnT: It is a brilliant and exciting risk Maelstrom
[20:32] Benjamin Noble: I have shivers.
[20:32] Shava Suntzu: Will the accounting standards be run by AVIX standards or Ginko standards, for transparency?
[20:33] Maelstrom Baphomet: It's as I always said, a very volatile market.
[20:33] IntLibber Brautigan: I'm extremely bullish on this merger, and I'm confident that this will mean a very bright future for both AVIX and GInko
[20:33] Dimitri Gasser: slec standards i hope
[20:33] Benjamin Noble: Okay, seriously, Investor Allen, straightforward question - do you believe that Ginko can cover its current stated debts to depositors?
[20:33] Maelstrom Baphomet: Nicholas, will you still be committed to maintain the standards the SLEC is proposing? I heard mentioned continued co-operation, but you're the one who'll be stepping up to assume management authority.
[20:33] IntLibber Brautigan: I need to go to the SLEC meeting starting right now down the road in Jefferson
[20:33] Shava Suntzu: ...friendly amendment... or SLEC standards? :)
[20:34] Investor Allen: Yes Benjamin I can, this is a liquidty crunch, It is being experienced throughout SL and has had its effect across the virtual world. I wouldnt be here if I didnt.
[20:34] Maelstrom Baphomet: Ginko's atms have been around sine I joined SL in 1997..
[20:35] Kailen Juran: 1997?
[20:35] Investor Allen: If you want to talk Benjamin, feel free to IM me any time, ad me to your friends list if you like.
[20:35] Umphrey Sachs: yeah...he's really Al Gore.. He invented the internet too.
[20:35] Benjamin Noble: Investor Allen, followup, do you believe that Ginko has been paying off earlier investors with later investors deposits?
[20:35] Wellington Philbin: You say customer service would be handled by Ginko, but I would bet that most customers are not currently happy with Ginko's customer service. They have not been very proactive in communicating with us.
[20:35] Nicholas Portocarrero: Ginko Financial will become much more open about everything
[20:35] Nicholas Portocarrero: including my identity
[20:36] Benjamin Noble: How about it, Nicholas. Who are you?
[20:36] Investor Allen: Benjamin, not, Ginko is not a Ponzi scheme. I have discussed with Nicholas extensively the investments that Ginko makes. I can assure you it is not a ponzi. I can also see their investment portfolio on AVIX. GInko is not a ponzi scheme.
[20:37] Maelstrom Baphomet: pardon 2001
[20:37] Maelstrom Baphomet: 1997 is when I started using the internet
[20:37] Maelstrom Baphomet: blah
[20:37] Maelstrom Baphomet: 5 years
[20:37] Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype
[20:38] Maelstrom Baphomet: Time flies.. 2005
[20:38] Nicholas Portocarrero: My real life name is Andre Sanchez
[20:38] Maelstrom Baphomet: A long time
[20:38] Maelstrom Baphomet: grah
[20:38] Benjamin Noble: Where are you located, Nicholas?
[20:38] Maelstrom Baphomet: I'm having a bad day >.<
[20:38] Nicholas Portocarrero: Brazil, specificaly, the city of Sao Paulo.
[20:38] 7736237 Paine: Nicholas, will the GFG board consist of the highest stake GFG investors also?
[20:38] Umphrey Sachs: Long Live Ayrton Senna!
[20:39] Umphrey Sachs: ...in our memories
[20:39] Maelstrom Baphomet: I want to confirm, for the public, that the identity NIcholas just revealed is the same identity revelaed to AVIX IPO review staff at the time he offered his GPBA bonds.
[20:39] Benjamin Noble: Nicholas -- will you be more clear now about the 50% of Ginko that is not inworld?
[20:40] Nicholas Portocarrero: I have not thought about how to arange the board of directors Paine, however that seems fair. I canot confirm it now however.
[20:40] 7736237 Paine: Mael, then if that's the case, why wasn't it released when GFG when to IPO?
[20:40] 7736237 Paine: *wnet
[20:40] 7736237 Paine: *went..even
[20:41] Nicholas Portocarrero: I requested it to list the name Private in both occasions
[20:41] Nicholas Portocarrero: but I realize now that releasing my name is the right thing to do
[20:41] Nicholas Portocarrero: Even though I feel uncomfortable about it
[20:41] Maelstrom Baphomet: At the time NIcholas asked it not be released. If you not in our IPO standards we allow CEOs to offer ont he basis of long standing SL operations. Operations in excess of 2 years without intervention by LL is considered a tolerable risk without full rl identity disclosure.
[20:41] 7736237 Paine: well if you hold up to AVIX's standards of transparency, i concur
[20:42] Rexx4814 Beck: Why si the IPO only for 4% onfGinko and do you believe it to be worth L$ 125 million?
[20:42] Maelstrom Baphomet: It makes me very happy though that he reversed the decision.
[20:43] Legolas Delgado: 437,000$ is what the IPO value ginko at
[20:43] Legolas Delgado: thats US by the way not L$
[20:43] Maelstrom Baphomet: I think it is theoretically possible that GInko is worth that much. The 2 years I've been on SL I've run into ginko atms everywhere
[20:44] Nicholas Portocarrero: I think Ginko Financial is worth more than that
[20:44] Maelstrom Baphomet: I don't know, however, the fundamentals.
[20:44] Nicholas Portocarrero: purely on account of the potential it has
[20:44] Legolas Delgado: Well can you give us a rought idea of the total $ made in the last year?
[20:45] Rexx4814 Beck: Why only 4% of GFG is being offered to the shareholders?
[20:45] Investor Allen: Folks I will be back momentarily. I strongly feel I should attend the SLEC function as it greatly effects the position I hold. Thankyou.
[20:45] Nicholas Portocarrero: To ensure that the IPO get's filled
[20:45] Mark Assia: I apologize in advance for going off-topic, but do you know how long it will take for Ginko to restore withdrawl/ATM functionality in-world and on the website?
[20:46] 7736237 Paine: Nicholas, on behalf of the Ginko depositors, is there a timeframe in which funds will be made available?
[20:46] Nicholas Portocarrero: And that it doesn't take too much from the market
[20:46] Benjamin Noble: That's not off topic mark, it's key.
[20:46] Legolas Delgado: Nicholas, can you give us a rough value on the net profit of ginko in the last year
[20:46] You decline SLML Information from A group member named Arbitrage Wise.
[20:47] Nicholas Portocarrero: I do not have an estimate as to when the liquidity crunch will end
[20:47] Nicholas Portocarrero: It is in great part, out of my control.
[20:47] Legolas Delgado: Any idea on hos much you have made in $ in the last year? It will be easy to determine the value of the company to me if you can provide that info
[20:48] Benjamin Noble: Nicholas - how much do you and the other officers of Ginko pay yourselves annually out of the deposits?
[20:48] Nicholas Portocarrero: We will be changing the structure of ginko's depositor liabilities to facilitate this process, but I do not know how well it will work out
[20:49] Rexx4814 Beck: I gues my question is less about the 4% then where did you guys come up with the value of company at $L125 million for the company?
[20:51] Nicholas Portocarrero: The support staff gets paid on the neighborhood of 1-2k usd/month, as do I.
[20:51] Benjamin Noble: Let me ask another very simple question: Is the only *NEW* money in this venture supposed to come fromLet me ask another very simple question: Is the only *NEW* money in this venture supposed to come from Ginko's IPO? In other words, is the only cash that changes hands here coming from people you hope to entice into investing in Ginko over the next 90 days?
[20:52] Nicholas Portocarrero: The number for the support staff is NOT for the each person, but for the whole staff
[20:52] Legolas Delgado: Is it easy to say that ginko make atleast $50,000 a year?
[20:52] Legolas Delgado: makes*
[20:52] Legolas Delgado: err
[20:52] Legolas Delgado: sorry let me refraise that
[20:52] Legolas Delgado: How much did you make in the last year.
[20:53] Connie McMahon: Based on a valuation that cannot be substantiated other than as an opinion regarding "potential"?
[20:53] Nicholas Portocarrero: As I have explained Benjamin, Ginko Financial does not have much in terms of cash reserves at this point
[20:53] Benjamin Noble: What does Ginko have that is worth so much that is *not* in cash reserves?
[20:54] Nicholas Portocarrero: The best we could do would be 1) wait for profits to bring new cash (take time) or 2) sell off assets
[20:54] Nicholas Portocarrero: selling off assets is very problematic for a number of reasons
[20:54] Benjamin Noble: Why not sell off assets? Isn't that the responsible thing to do?
[20:54] Shava Suntzu: Would you care to estimate how much of Ginko's holdings are in the gambling sector?
[20:54] Nicholas Portocarrero: No, it's not
[20:55] Nicholas Portocarrero: Because selling off assets would require us to sell at a steep discount
[20:55] Nicholas Portocarrero: Thus harming all accountholders and making it impossible to honor everyone
[20:55] Benjamin Noble: In other words, your investments are failing, right?
[20:55] Nicholas Portocarrero: No...
[20:55] Benjamin Noble: But they're "at a steep discount"
[20:56] Benjamin Noble: How is that not underperforming to your expectations?
[20:56] Benjamin Noble: Or, failing?
[20:56] Connie McMahon: How steep?
[20:56] Nicholas Portocarrero: Some of it is certainly underperforming, in terms of my expectations
[20:56] Jim Schack: title off
[20:56]  Niecey Heart: OK
[20:57] Nicholas Portocarrero: However, the main problem is that for most of the assets, there simply isn't enough of a market
[20:57] Ashleigh Wade: the entire economy is underperforming
[20:57] Henri DeCuir: Then were these really wise investments?
[20:57] Dimitri Gasser: what type of investments does ginko have, alot of people are now wondering " what are they doing with OUR L$" ?
[20:57] Nobody Fugazi: actually, the entire market is performing well, just not up to inflated expectations.
[20:57] Nicholas Portocarrero: Some of the investments we have made are in technology, we cannot sell, at least not easily
[20:57] Dimitri Gasser: or is ginko going to remain like willy wonkas factory, noone sees anything
[20:57] Benjamin Noble: Whether there is not enough of a market, or whatver it is, Then this is my question: your investments are not performing at 60% a year, but you are paying depositors at 60% a year. Isn't that guranteed to run you out of money that way? Isn't it? Just be honest with people here.
[20:58] Mark Assia: Dimitri: People may not have seen anything, but it was apparently some damn good chocolate.
[20:58] Nicholas Portocarrero: The idea of the investments was not to have something highly liquid, but something that was highly profitable
[20:58] Rexx4814 Beck: I'm sorry but frankly I think investors need an answer as to why you guys believe that GFG is worth $125 million at least more then "potential". Seems like a heck of a lot of potential.
[20:58] Benjamin Noble: But it turns out it isn't highly profitable. And Rexx is dead on there.
[20:59] Benjamin Noble: Why, now, given the history, do you think it's worth *anything* let alone 125m?
[20:59] Nicholas Portocarrero: This one of the key things features of highly profitable investments.
[20:59] Nicholas Portocarrero: We did not expect to have to liquidate them
[20:59] Benjamin Noble: What?
[20:59] Nicholas Portocarrero: as our growth has always been very strong
[20:59] Henri DeCuir: But you have to expect for fluctuating market, and at one point or another, you have to liquidate something.
[20:59] Henri DeCuir: At least the interest from it,which isn't even really evident here.
[21:01] Rexx4814 Beck: You didn't have a cash reserve to cover at least part of this? There is ALWAYS a cash crunch from time to time wethaer RL or SL
[21:01] Shava Suntzu: Do you expect to reduce the percentage yeilds on Ginko deposits in the face of market issues recently?
[21:01] Nicholas Portocarrero: We did have a cash reserve
[21:02] Nicholas Portocarrero: It was overwhelmed
[21:02] Benjamin Noble: And it isn't an excuse to say, well, everything is "underperforming" or "at a steep discount" so we can't sell it. That means you screwed up, and THAT is why you can't pay people.
[21:02] Connie McMahon: Can we go back to Shava's earlier question about the percentage of the portfolio in gaming stock?
[21:02] Nicholas Portocarrero: We will be lowering the savings account interest, yes
[21:02] Shava Suntzu: Thank you Connie! :)
[21:02] Benjamin Noble: But what's really appalling is that this is going to now cost everyone else listed on AVIX a bunch of money.
[21:02] Benjamin Noble: When will you be lowering the interest rate, Nicholas?
[21:02] Jason Barrett: lowering it by how much?
[21:02] Nobody Fugazi: Just as a general question, how much reserve does Ginko generally keep on hand as a percentage, and are you going to increase that percentage?
[21:02] Benjamin Noble: And what will you be lowering it to?
[21:02] Nicholas Portocarrero: Aside from LOT, we hold no gambling stocks
[21:02] Legolas Delgado: Ben, what happend was basicly what happend in first great depresion one bad thing happend and then everyone wants there money. Well it isnt ALWAYS there.
[21:03] Nicholas Portocarrero: Our position in LOT was a little over 1mil shares
[21:03] Nicholas Portocarrero: which we had been trying to liquidate
[21:03] Rexx4814 Beck: Don't you think that shareholders deserve at least more then 4% then? My question then is why not "retire" 200 million shares and let the IPO have a better chance of going forward at 20% of the company?
[21:03] Benjamin Noble: Except that banks THERE weren't offering 60% a year, Legolas.
[21:03] Nobody Fugazi: no, this isn't a depression. it's a reality check.
[21:03] Nicholas Portocarrero: we are going to increase the cash reserve percentage, yes
[21:03] Nobody Fugazi: thanks, Nicholas.
[21:03] Henri DeCuir: Legolas, you may feel that your analysis is historically correct, and it is for 1920, but certainly banks have learned from that process and carry enough to remain solvent. This was not a depression, this was a small bank run.
[21:04] Nobody Fugazi nods at Henri
[21:04] Legolas Delgado: HAve you looked at the WSE?
[21:04] Jason Barrett: Nicholas how much are you going to lower intrest rate by?
[21:04] Henri DeCuir: It should be expected that the bumps in the road are going to get slightly worse.
[21:04] Legolas Delgado: I have small index onit and it has droped 20% no?
[21:04] Nobody Fugazi: WSE shot itself in the foot with a nuclear device.
[21:04] Henri DeCuir: I don't measure a financial economy by kids-playing-stockbrokers, Legolas.
[21:05] Nicholas Portocarrero: Henri
[21:05] Eben Slade: Not all of us are kids, and we aren't here to just play.
[21:05] Nicholas Portocarrero: Bank runs still occur in the world
[21:05] Henri DeCuir: Nicholas.
[21:05] Nicholas Portocarrero: There are many mechanisms that have been developed to facilitate such difficulties
[21:05] Connie McMahon: In the world banks have associations and governments to bail them out.
[21:06] Nicholas Portocarrero: however, the fundamentals have not changed
[21:06] Henri DeCuir: You're currently running a completely opaque insitution. You know what happens to opaque institutions that default on what they're owed?
[21:06] Henri DeCuir: Err, on what they owe?
[21:06] Benjamin Noble: Nicholas - many are asking this one and no answer yet: How much will the interest rate be lowered by?
[21:07] Nobody Fugazi: historically, I believe Ginko's low is 0.09% interest.
[21:07] Nicholas Portocarrero: A lot, we will be shifting the interest payments to term deposits instead
[21:07] Henri DeCuir: You practically already have.
[21:07] Arnaud Villota: given all this, why weren't the shareholders in both AVIX and GINKO allowed to vote on this "merger"
[21:07] Umphrey Sachs: with no defined term
[21:07] Nobody Fugazi chuckles
[21:07] Henri DeCuir: Your users curretly have an unsecured certified deposit at your bank.
[21:07] Mark Assia: Nicholas, I feel inclined to say that as a Ginko account holder, I'm willing to incur an interest rate drop to ensure the wellbeing of Ginko. Perhaps you should pose the situation to the forum users in an open discussion.
[21:07] Legolas Delgado: Because we dont have a controling stake so it would matter...
[21:08] Benjamin Noble: I bet you would, Mark, since a donut beats a donut hole.
[21:08] Henri DeCuir grins
[21:08] Benjamin Noble: Seriously, though, that's a good idea.
[21:08] Mark Assia: Of course, a majority of the forum users and Ginko customers will be up in arms over even a very marginal drop
[21:09] Benjamin Noble: Lower it to 1%, yearly, for awhile and try to act like a real bank, try to fix this. Otherwise, no one will ever believe it was anything other than a good-natured plan that went very, very bad.
[21:09] Mark Assia: I'd say 5%.
[21:09] Mark Assia: Keep it on the upper end of RL-banking.
[21:10] Benjamin Noble: You offered 60% - that's absurd. Sure, make it upper end of RL banking, no overhead, put it in PalPal's money market and you can beat that. Put it in the S&P 500.
[21:10] Benjamin Noble: But don't tell people you'll keep this up going forward. It cannot work.
[21:10] Mark Assia: Compounding interest quarterly would rule out the types of people who would make bank runs and switch banks for .01% increases.
[21:11] Nobody Fugazi: OK. I'm going to ask this - if this IPO was as well intentioned and was as big of news as it is presently being made out to be, why all the chattiness after the IPO was rejected by businesses instead of before?
[21:11] Mark Assia: And yes, 5% is a nice match if you're looking into money markets for interest sources.
[21:11] Rexx4814 Beck: or it would speed it up to banks that do compound interest daily
[21:11] Nicholas Portocarrero: The exact numbers will be released once our term deposit software is ready, which it should be in 24-48 hours
[21:12] Nicholas Portocarrero: I don't understand the question fugazi
[21:13] Nobody Fugazi: this talk of buying out AVIX, et al - why the buzz NOW instead of before the IPO went up?
[21:13] Nobody Fugazi: And why are there no visible risk factors in the IPO itself? It seems you are admitting the risk here.
[21:13] Nicholas Portocarrero: I'm not sure I understand the importance of the order
[21:13] Nobody Fugazi: The importance is that this all sounds like damage control right now.
[21:14] Nobody Fugazi: generally speaking, buzz happens before an IPO.
[21:14] Nicholas Portocarrero: Well, the IPO is in progress
[21:14] Nobody Fugazi: yes, of course.
[21:14] Nicholas Portocarrero: I don't see any particularly important reason why the "buzz" had to be done before putting it up
[21:14] Nicholas Portocarrero: However
[21:14] Rexx4814 Beck: And a value is attached to a company based on some form of concrete expectations
[21:15] Nicholas Portocarrero: It was part of the plan to NOT announce the merger until the IPO had been filled
[21:15] Connie McMahon: That's transparency for you
[21:15] Mark Assia: Fugazi: I feel that if you don't agree with the merger, don't buy into the IPO. As Nicholas stated before, if the IPO fails the merger is off.
[21:15] Nobody Fugazi: perhaps you should look into why that would be important. As it is, Ginko's not looking healthy now, the IPO looks like a bid to get 5 million Lindens, and then after companies rejected it we're hearing about a merger with AVIX.
[21:16] Nobody Fugazi: I mean - either you need a serious PR agency, or something smells awry in Denmark
[21:16] Nicholas Portocarrero: I suppose I need a serious PR agency then
[21:17] Nicholas Portocarrero: why would Allen try and do damage cnotrol on my behalf though?
[21:17] Nicholas Portocarrero: I don't think I understand your logic
[21:17] Nobody Fugazi: Perhaps that is the problem, Nicholas.
[21:18] Arnaud Villota: You sid a bit ago that the plan was to announce the merger AFTER the IPO filled. Why change the plan now?
[21:18] Connie McMahon: Because he very much would like to sell AVIX? Its not his first attempt./
[21:18] Arnaud Villota: I think that is nobody's point.
[21:18] Nobody Fugazi: maybe you're too busy running things to ascertain how they look from the outside.
[21:18] Mark Assia: Hmm. Well, I fully encourage Nicholas to do whatever it takes to ensure the health and prosperity of Ginko. In the meantime, I'm going to go attempt to liberate my funds from the grasp of WSE.
[21:18] Madelena BnT: It seems to me that the basic infrastructure of Ginko is tight and that liquidity in light of market factors outside of the running of the bank itself have come to light. This merger seems a logical solution to the long term challenges of liquidity and when you combine these two solid infrastructures you will be left with an extremely viable and potentially lucrative investment
[21:19] Nobody Fugazi: that sounds well and good , but without transparency it is a castle on virtual sand.
[21:19] Rexx4814 Beck: If you are asking for $L5 million for this IPO then the stake for the shareholders should be more then 4% The stake needs to be 20 or 25% unless more then "potential" is given for why this company is worth $L 125 million. Otherwise it looks like a cash grab to some investors. Are you willing to consider dropping the total number of shares from 250 million to increase shareholders % of ownership?
[21:20] Nicholas Portocarrero: Not by that much
[21:20] Sarah Nerd: When idea or time frame as to when we will be able to acess of own funding from Ginko?
[21:20] Dimitri Gasser: yeah, offering 4% on a HUGE ipo like that is just asking for investors to bend over. .... does the ipo come with vaselene?
[21:21] Sarah Nerd: our*
[21:21] Dimitri Gasser: what type of a dividend will you need to pay on 125mil to get even .01 L$? ... its huge
[21:21] Dimitri Gasser: and how will you do that?
[21:22] Nobody Fugazi: KY is more eco friendly. Water soluble.
[21:22] Rexx4814 Beck: To basically "save" the company from liquidy problems in a tight market you are unwilling to let even 20% of the company go to investors?
[21:23] Nicholas Portocarrero: If this is not done as it is being done, or at about the same way, it would be more worthwhile for everyone to simply convert all account balances to bonds or shares in ginko financial
[21:24] Nicholas Portocarrero: I do not believe people would be happy with such a forced move
[21:24] Nobody Fugazi: As Henri already implied, the withdrawal limits have the same effect as bongs.
[21:24] Travis Ristow: Ok Nicholas, What happens to ginko if wse were to fold?
[21:25] Rexx4814 Beck: Frankly the "forced move" is on investors when you say that it is you control 94% of the company or the deal doesn't fly?
[21:25] Nobody Fugazi: bonds. Sorry, dunno why I typed bongs.
[21:25] Travis Ristow: What would that do to ginko?
[21:25] Nobody Fugazi whistles.
[21:25] Rexx4814 Beck: er 96%
[21:25] EvansMom Goodspeed: you might have been right the first time, Nobody
[21:25] Nicholas Portocarrero: 96% is not being held by me
[21:26] Rexx4814 Beck: doesn't matter if it is "you" or a group of people. It is the investors I am concerned about. They are supposed to slap down $5 L million
[21:26] Nicholas Portocarrero: 40million shares are being used to buy AVIX
[21:27] Rexx4814 Beck: for only 4% of the company?
[21:27] Nicholas Portocarrero: Yes. If they do not believe it is a good investment, then...
[21:27] Benjamin Noble: 4% of a company that is "over extended" remember.
[21:28] Rexx4814 Beck: what were the profits last year? How much are we paying for those earnings? that is a basic shareholder question
[21:28] Legolas Delgado: What ben is looking for is for you to show him why the company is worth 125,000,000
[21:28] Madelena BnT: What will Maelstrom's role now be in light of these new developments?
[21:28] Henri DeCuir nods at Legolas. Ben has asked that in a series of different ways over the course of this meeting, and has not yet received a response. I think we all deserve one.
[21:28] Legolas Delgado: His role will be to buckelup and hold on.
[21:29] Umphrey Sachs: I guess that's better than put your head between your knees and kiss yer ass goodbye
[21:29] Benjamin Noble: No, it won't, because I don't have anything in this enterprise. And I think that's terrible, rude advice to give people who do, and who are asking legitiamte questions.
[21:30] Robert130269 Allen is Online
[21:30] Nobody Fugazi: dunno. I've found nothing compelling so far for investment or to establish Ginko's health, really. So many 'if's involved.
[21:30] Nobody Fugazi: are there any trump cards to sweeten the deal?
[21:30] Rexx4814 Beck: Where are the profit numbers from last year and will potetial shareholders be given that information if they are not posted somewhere now?
[21:31] Nicholas Portocarrero: I will not be releasing any financial statements dealing with past profit and loss
[21:31] Legolas Delgado: ...
[21:31] Eben Slade: Why not?
[21:31] Travis Ristow: Nice
[21:31] Connie McMahon: More transparency.
[21:31] Henri DeCuir: I'm sorry, what?
[21:31] Nicholas Portocarrero: The statements that I -will- be releasing will be released, so you'll have to wait and see
[21:31] Eben Slade: That's pretty basic stuff. No reason to withhold it.
[21:32] Henri DeCuir: What, are you drug running, Nicholas? What the heck are you hiding?
[21:32] Strange Ranger: Wrong answer.
[21:32] Travis Ristow: You get what ya get and be happy with it.
[21:32] Nicholas Portocarrero: What I mean by that is that there is no point in me giving out statements now
[21:32] Nicholas Portocarrero: You'll see the statements when they are released
[21:32] Nicholas Portocarrero: As they are released
[21:33] Nobody Fugazi: statements establish a track record by which consistency can be judged.
[21:33] Legolas Delgado: Really? But are you not trying to push an IPO??
[21:33] Connie McMahon: When will they be released?
[21:33] Travis Ristow: the question was would you give financials?
[21:33] Umphrey Sachs: When can you give out an accurate staement of accounts?
[21:33] Nobody Fugazi: But I'm just a layperson...
[21:33] Rexx4814 Beck: And yet you think we SHOULD invest our money in this?
[21:33] Henri DeCuir: Past performance can be a good measure of future performance, Nicholas. If you've made sound investments, that would certainly help us at least temporarily trust your secrecy.
[21:33] Henri DeCuir: (ok, I know, I know, that cliche is usually spoken with a negative. but I think it's valid both ways :) )
[21:34] Nicholas Portocarrero: I will see what I can do, but I can make no promises regarding such statements
[21:34] Rexx4814 Beck: This is a company that is supposed to be going "public" Thats not public hiding past accounting statements
[21:34] Connie McMahon: Who would invest in a company that refuses to let them see its financial statements?
[21:34] Nicholas Portocarrero: oh gosh
[21:35] Henri DeCuir looks around for his 'Enron' documentary...
[21:35] Buni Gynoid: that was my first thought...
[21:35] Rexx4814 Beck: So we can buy a stack in the company yet have no rights to information that is truly BASIC
[21:35] Geona Graves: I smell enterprise
[21:35] Rexx4814 Beck: stake
[21:35] Geona Graves: I'm not sure but I think that's the smell
[21:35] Bondranonicus Collins: third generation?
[21:36] Rexx4814 Beck: Frankly this is truly a disgusting way to treat people who you want to invest $L5 million in your company
[21:36] Jordan Alemany: I love you.
[21:36] Nicholas Portocarrero: ok
[21:36] Connie McMahon: This is pointless.
[21:37] Geona Graves: it sounds abit like drilling for oil with a broken drill, don't you agree?
[21:37] Bondranonicus Collins: drama? whats that? lol
[21:37] Buni Gynoid: no wonder people were pulling out their money a few days ago
[21:37] Eben Slade: Nicholas, you do realize that your non-chalant responses are being reported, right?
[21:37] Nobody Fugazi: better before someone ARs your title.
[21:38] Nicholas Portocarrero: Yes, I understand this is a public meeting.
[21:38] Nicholas Portocarrero: I'm doing my best to give honest, straight-forward responses
[21:38] Rexx4814 Beck: No you are not. You are not even giving us basic information
[21:40] Nobody Fugazi: OK. Nicholas wants investors.
[21:40] Rexx4814 Beck: Where is the openness when you refuse to give basic accounting information?
[21:40] Nobody Fugazi: that's what you need to know.
[21:40] Geona Graves: fair enough.
[21:40] Umphrey Sachs: But, the better question is.. What has been said tonight to lure investors into Ginko affairls?
[21:41] Rexx4814 Beck: It is basically take it or leave it?
[21:41] Nobody Fugazi: You can poll for consensus, but I'm pretty sure what the answer will be.
[21:41] Nobody Fugazi consults his magic 8 ball. 'Outlook not so good'
[21:42] Geona Graves: just making sure we weren't towed.
[21:42] Rexx4814 Beck: Will you be answering any further questions?
[21:42] Umphrey Sachs: For the sake of deposit interest, will you be able to list what Assets are in Ginko posession?
[21:42] Nobody Fugazi thinks more stockholder meetings should have ouija boards in SecondLife.
[21:43] Sarah Nerd: lol
[21:43] Benjamin Noble laughs.
[21:44] Sarah Nerd: I appolgize if it was alreadt answered, but has there been any statement about when we will be able to acess our own funds again?
[21:44] Nobody Fugazi: I will say this. Investors have become a LOT more intelligent over the last week, and I do not feel that this offer meets the new intelligence level of the average investor. I strongly suggest that something happen to sweeten the deal if this is expected to succeed.
[21:44] Buni Gynoid: watching PR suicide is fun
[21:44] Benjamin Noble: Goodnight, all.
[21:44] Nobody Fugazi: later Ben
[21:44] Rexx4814 Beck: So I guess the meeting is over since you are not answering anyone?
[21:45] Nobody Fugazi: I'm not sure there were answers anyway. "Take it or leave it" doesn't leave much wiggle room.
[21:45] Investor Allen: I will be working with Nicholas over the next 24 hours to gather up past financial information to be placed in the prospectus listed on AVIX.
[21:45] Eben Slade: I'm off to post my text log. Good night, all.
[21:47] Investor Allen: Wit that said lets go ahead and end this meeting for tonight. I will work with Nicholas over the next 24 hours to find the answers for questions that went unanswered tonight.
[21:48] Bondranonicus Collins: is there anything you CAN answer?
[21:48] You: With "what" said?
[21:48] Bondranonicus Collins: for now at least
[21:48] Nobody Fugazi: clearly those answers should have been found pre-IPO.
[21:48] Nobody Fugazi: L8r.
[21:49] Strange Ranger: What about those companies that are listed on AVIX that don't agree with this decision? Aren't you afraid that some of them will de-list, IA?
[21:49] Investor Allen: I must retire for the evening, I would be happy to work with any of you to discuss this further tomorrow. Feel free to add me on your friend list.
[21:50] Investor Allen: Strange, I see no reason for any company listed on AVIX to delist over this as I dont think it effects them that majorly. AVIX is still AVIX and has not changed from that, also as previously stated if the IPO is not filled and investors do not show interest in this project, then it will not go through.
[21:51] Legolas Delgado: Strange as far as the deal of Ginko gaining control of AVIX. I for one see it as more or less a good thing. Being that it will bring the number of investors way up from previous levels. The problem is Ginko is trying to finance it will they are having trouble paying there banking customers.
[21:51] Legolas Delgado: while*
[21:52] Legolas Delgado: sorry for typos... its rather late.
[21:52] Nicholas Portocarrero: Good night