You feel that cheating in sports of whatever kind by whatever means including performance enhancing drugs is a viable option.

I don’t.

You keep derailing the argument to deal with the personal lives, quality of life, motivations (or lack thereof in your opinion) of MMO players. I’m simply trying to deal with the issue at hand.

You feel you can’t compare it to any other hobby or recreational sport. I feel that it’s no different to a number of other less energetic, yet widely accepted and respected hobbies.

As I said, impasse.

Nothing more constructive either of us can add by the looks, so I’m done.

You have tried that sports/drug debate before. It’s not even close to the same thing. You’re taking what should be a game and comparing it to competitive sports and or career sports. That’s not a hobby.

You’re right yet again my argument is like saying something like that, BUT as with my last post, if you could step outside yourself for one minute you would be able to see that it is NOT about football but rather about MMOs in this case WoW. I have no personal experience with people that are hardcore athletes, but I’m sure there is some bit of social, mental and competitive reason why they do it. And if they want to beat the guy that’s better than they are then they better find a way to do it. Either hit the gym 4,6,8,10 hours a day which leaves no time to sleep/work or juice up a bit. I’m not saying juicing is ok, but I’m not saying it’s not either. My opinion shouldn’t matter on the juicing statement has it doesn’t have anything to do with me. Botting once did. I do not agree that it impacts anyone other than those who make it a point to be upset about it. If they didn’t know, they probably wouldn’t care. From the standpoint that you want to keep re-visiting with the whole no lifers in sports analogy. Then yes, I agree, they should juice. If they came in to the game late, don’t have the time to deal with it, or simply do it as a matter of choice, then power to them.

And I’m sure a huge percent of people playing WoW are not playing for the spirituality of playing the game like a hobby. They are not getting some sort of self worth by creating a balsa wood airplanes; they are not getting the exercise of running around a field playing paintball. The are simply sitting in a chair, 2,4,6,10 hours (and more) a day growing a persona that will not help them a year from now. So comparing the two doesn’t hold much merit for most of us reading your comments.

Let me ask you this. If “stating that those who are against botting are selfishly trying to protect their turf” is close minded what are they bitching about then? Why even complain about botting? If it doesn’t bother them, why are they bitching? Is it that whole generation Y thing? Is it the overly developed sense of entitlement? I don’t do it, there for you shouldn’t?

Video games are a hobby sure, but totally different from any other hobby in every way shape and form. So an argument that is unique to them shouldn’t be so hard for you to understand. We simply don’t care that this argument doesn’t apply to anything else, we are talking about Botting MMOs, not whatever you can compare it to every time you reply.

What worries me the most are these people that cannot distinguish between who they are in a game and who they are in real life. They can take two hours to organize 40 people to take down a dragon over the course of the next 4 hours but can’t take 2 minutes to organize anything tangible like a check book or voting.

Quote: “You’re back to this MMO gamers are not lifeless zombies trip again. ”

“To ACHIEVE anything in these MMO games you have to be at the keyboard all day long.”

Your argument is akin to saying something like: “People who play football well have no lives and spend their entire day practicing and running up and down on a field.”

I can only deduce from that, that your argument for bots would be similar to: “Because I don’t have the time to run up and down on a football field all day with these other no-lifers, I have the right to use performance enhancing drugs and just outright cheat at the game. Otherwise I won’t have a chance to enjoy the sport.”

Playing ‘these mmo games’ is as viable a hobby as any other, be it stamp collecting, fantasy football, paintball or chess.

Stating that those who are against botting are selfishly trying to protect their turf from others who don’t have the same amount of time to commit as them, is close minded at best.

That argument would never fly in any other hobby, yet for some reason in the badly understood field of computer games, it seems to prevail.

You’re back to this MMO gamers are not lifeless zombies trip again. 90% of the rest of the world is not you. You’re writing is pretty top shelf, so I can’t believe for a minute you’re retarded. Step out of yourself for one minute and look at the big picture. To ACHIEVE anything in these MMO games you have to be at the keyboard all day long. That’s just science…

TV shows like South Park and others have made funny bits about how this lifestyle works. And yes, playing in an MMO like World of Warcrap is a lifestyle to many of its players. It becomes their only social outlet. It is like going to the bar for you and me…

CodeMonkey

There are many reasons why these MMO players get upset about bots running around. Its been my experience that they are most worried about “THEIR” prime farming ground, which when not farmed by them, destroys the “in game economy”. Is this a flaw with the game or people in general? Who knows. I tend to believe its flawed people myself…

I’ll break this down into sections for you CodeMonkey.

[quote]“I’m trying to understand the issue here.”[/quote]

Well my response here is that you don’t seem to by trying to understand particularly hard. Either that, or you seem to have trouble digesting large chunks of info at once, otherwise you would have gone back and read all the comments before this which covered every single one of your points ad nauseum.

Now, pulling on the latex gloves it’s time to delve deeper into your comment.

[quote]“You have sweatshops in Asia with whole business models revolving around leveling a character and this one guy gets busted for $6mil for writing a program to help you get to max level to play with your friends who have less of a life than you :).”[/quote]

So ignoring the snarky and totally original little “MMO gamers have no lives” comment which adds nothing to the discussion, we’re left with what translates to: “Sweatshops in Asia are doing what this guy does, why should he be sued?”

This would be like blaming shoplifters when you’re convicted of burglary.

“But Guv! There are people out there right now lifting stuff from the corner store! Why should I get a sentence for burglary! It’s not fair guv!”

Seriously?

[quote]“Explain to me how someone power leveling with a bot is cheapening your experience playing the game???” So ,what is the difference if I grow my character the long way and then sell them off.[/quote]

No, I’m not going to explain something to you that has been explained several times over already. The entire case is based on the negative impact of botting on the game. Documentation attached to the case stating Blizzard’s plea has a long explanation of why botting is just not cool. Try asking on the WoW forums or in fact any other MMO, why botting is not on.

In fact, simply scroll up on this page and see some of the previous statements I’ve made.

Of course, you could also just continue to stick your fingers in your ears and hum a tune when somebody tries to explain it to you.

Lastly, one question mark after a question. Just as John Cleese said “There is only ONE redeemer!” Well, there is only ONE question mark after a question. Learn it, know it, love it.

[quote]“Power leveling to get through tedious issues means the game play need to be changed, not the killing off of bots. If the game play was better, then folks wouldn’t use bots.”[/quote]

This sir, is in a word, horseshit. There is a subsection of players in any game will try to achieve the maximum they can with the least amount of input. Ever heard of ‘Achievement Servers’ in Team Fortress 2?

Basically, Valve developed a series of achievements that could be accomplished during normal gameplay. What did players do? They set up special servers where you could simply get the achievement with the minimum of effort. If the achievement was to kill 3 enemies in a row without missing, then they would have 3 enemies standing in a line and not moving.

Team Fortress 2 has some of the most fun and compelling gameplay today. It’s one of the most popular team based first person shooters. There is no ‘grind’. Yet players still do this? “Tedium” and “gameplay” has nothing to do with this.

If the game is too tedious to play, you shouldn’t be playing it.

[quote]“So the problem stems from this guy being in the US. Overseas companies are doing this and will continue no matter what Blizzard does.”[/quote]

That’s like saying we shouldn’t prosecute criminals in the US because we can’t prosecute criminals in foreign countries.

Seriously? Reason, when did you die?

Lastly:
[quote]“If this is annoying, play a console game where there is less hacking going on.”[/quote]

Frankly, this sir is truly the most asinine comment you have made in this entire post. Anyone struggling to appreciate the level of idiocy inherent in that statement should re-read the post again to gain context.

It simply doesn’t bear replying to.

In conclusion, please do some more research before you comment on something. These arguments have all been covered several times before in this and other discussions on the matter.

So the problem stems from this guy being in the US. Overseas companies are doing this and will continue no matter what Blizzard does. If this is annoying, play a console game where there is less hacking going on.

Lern 2 wrote engrish peeple… No one is every going to care about anything you have to say if you can’t even be troubled to learn how to say it in the first place…

Sprinting. Steroids or other forms of performance enhancing drugs, not allowed. Use them and you’re generally not allowed to participate in sports.

Why? Because they give an unfair advantage.

What about people who hire a personal trainer? Maybe a personal dietitian? What about people who spend longer training or have more time to train? Who are younger? Who buy a snazzy set of high performance running shoes that look like something designed by NASA?

Can it be argued that because I have a social life and I don’t want to spend 80% of my day training, that I should be allowed to use a performance enhancing drug?

Are the sports committees being unfair? Aren’t performance enhancing drugs simply a personal choice? Investing money in a bottle of ‘roids that make my daily training easier… why is that wrong?

Try telling the Olympic committee to ‘Get a LIFE’ because they won’t let somebody use drugs.

a friend of me use glider for a good reason i think.
he works like almost 24/7 and dont have much time to play the game what is sad because he really likes it and he refuse to buy an account online for supporting those chinese basterds.

then he found glider where u can do it your own…
he really likes it because he can continu with the game and he doesnt sell gold/accounts

why cant u be happy for him that he can play the game?
u hypocrit (dont know how to spell it) redneks basterds.

thanks.