Comments on: Linden Lab Changes Second Life Terms of Service: Non-Appearance Arbitration for Matters Under 10k, Must File Matters Over 10k in San Francisco http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/ Legal Issues That Impact Virtual Worlds Tue, 13 May 2014 04:03:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Benjamin Duranske http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9268 Benjamin Duranske Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:32:38 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9268 Tony - My read on 7.2 in conjunction with 7.3 is that you have to file claims over 10k in San Francisco, in court, and that Linden Lab is saying here that they're not interested in arbitrating those bigger claims. I suppose a user could always send a letter to Linden Lab before a lawsuit and ask if they'd be willing to arbitrate a bigger claim, but there's a school of thought that says consumers should generally avoid arbitration and stick with the courts where possible anyway, because many believe there is an institutional bias in arbitration in favor of corporations (since corporations represent repeat business). Tony – My read on 7.2 in conjunction with 7.3 is that you have to file claims over 10k in San Francisco, in court, and that Linden Lab is saying here that they’re not interested in arbitrating those bigger claims. I suppose a user could always send a letter to Linden Lab before a lawsuit and ask if they’d be willing to arbitrate a bigger claim, but there’s a school of thought that says consumers should generally avoid arbitration and stick with the courts where possible anyway, because many believe there is an institutional bias in arbitration in favor of corporations (since corporations represent repeat business).

]]> By: Tony http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9263 Tony Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:59:45 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9263 Don't people have the ability to go to arbitration anyways? As long as both parties want to I mean? The TOS makes the arbitration a choice by the "relief seeker". Does that mean LL cannot back out of arbitration if they want to push it to court for some reason? I did a document compare and did find another change at the very end. The new version states that LL may give notice to you through the SL viewer at or after log-in to your account. I think they may have done that based on a story I saw a little while back where a judge ruled that changing a contract on a website alone wasn't adequate notice (Douglas v. United States District Court for the Central District of California). I think they are trying to get this out now so that someone can't say they didn't "see" it because it was sent through the client. Don’t people have the ability to go to arbitration anyways? As long as both parties want to I mean? The TOS makes the arbitration a choice by the “relief seeker”. Does that mean LL cannot back out of arbitration if they want to push it to court for some reason?

I did a document compare and did find another change at the very end. The new version states that LL may give notice to you through the SL viewer at or after log-in to your account.

I think they may have done that based on a story I saw a little while back where a judge ruled that changing a contract on a website alone wasn’t adequate notice (Douglas v. United States District Court for the Central
District of California). I think they are trying to get this out now so that someone can’t say they didn’t “see” it because it was sent through the client.

]]> By: Jessica Holyoke http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9252 Jessica Holyoke Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:01:45 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9252 One thing I missed on initially reviewing the new ToS. A resident can only sue Linden Labs in San Francisco, California, but the Labs retain the right to sue a resident anywhere else, the any competant jurisdication part. In some ways, that sounds like a good consumer section, knowing that the Linden's will not pull you into litigation in California. In others, it sounds like a bad move, saying that they can sue a resident anywhere, but that resident can only file suit in California. But realistically, it sounds like making sure that the Lindens can find personal jurisdiction over residents. Meaning if the Lindens sue a Japanese resident and a California court questions whether the resident has minimum contacts to be sued in California. One thing I missed on initially reviewing the new ToS. A resident can only sue Linden Labs in San Francisco, California, but the Labs retain the right to sue a resident anywhere else, the any competant jurisdication part.

In some ways, that sounds like a good consumer section, knowing that the Linden’s will not pull you into litigation in California. In others, it sounds like a bad move, saying that they can sue a resident anywhere, but that resident can only file suit in California. But realistically, it sounds like making sure that the Lindens can find personal jurisdiction over residents. Meaning if the Lindens sue a Japanese resident and a California court questions whether the resident has minimum contacts to be sued in California.

]]> By: Second Life TOS Update « The Grid Live http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9229 Second Life TOS Update « The Grid Live Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:01:34 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9229 [...] Linden Lab Changes Second Life Terms of Service: Non-Appearance Arbitration for Matters Under 10k, Must File Matters Over 10k in San Francisco Today, Second Life creator Linden Lab changed Second life’s Terms of Service regarding dispute resolution. [...] [...] Linden Lab Changes Second Life Terms of Service: Non-Appearance Arbitration for Matters Under 10k, Must File Matters Over 10k in San Francisco Today, Second Life creator Linden Lab changed Second life’s Terms of Service regarding dispute resolution. [...]

]]> By: Second Life Terms Of Service Tweak Favors The Little Guy : Metaversed http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9202 Second Life Terms Of Service Tweak Favors The Little Guy : Metaversed Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:36:15 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9202 [...] A new Terms Of Service popped up today when people logged into Second Life. Of course, you had to click “I Accept” or risk losing access to your account, thus bringing up the same issues we’ve addressed before. Most will scroll past the mass of legalese unable to interpret any of it, but fortunately Virtually Blind has summarized the main points. [...] [...] A new Terms Of Service popped up today when people logged into Second Life. Of course, you had to click “I Accept” or risk losing access to your account, thus bringing up the same issues we’ve addressed before. Most will scroll past the mass of legalese unable to interpret any of it, but fortunately Virtually Blind has summarized the main points. [...]

]]> By: Benjamin Duranske http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9201 Benjamin Duranske Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:35:26 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9201 Thanks for the heads up on those and the link. The fonts thing could be there because it hit their radar screen with the font lawsuit against Blizzard in China. Or to protect SL-like looks that don't quite meet trademark tests. Or just general clean up; lawyers do that when we take a look at contracts. Thanks for the heads up on those and the link. The fonts thing could be there because it hit their radar screen with the font lawsuit against Blizzard in China. Or to protect SL-like looks that don’t quite meet trademark tests. Or just general clean up; lawyers do that when we take a look at contracts.

]]> By: Taran Rampersad http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9200 Taran Rampersad Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:23:12 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9200 They did change a few other things - I posted relevant text changes here: http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/574 Of note - 'Meta fonts' cannot be used. I don't know that anyone was using Linden Lab fonts, but... Linden Lab also put some more teeth into Section 4.2, it seems. They did change a few other things – I posted relevant text changes here:

http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/574

Of note – ‘Meta fonts’ cannot be used. I don’t know that anyone was using Linden Lab fonts, but…

Linden Lab also put some more teeth into Section 4.2, it seems.

]]> By: Benjamin Duranske http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9198 Benjamin Duranske Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:55:01 +0000 http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/09/18/new-tos-second-life-arbitration/#comment-9198 FYI - I'm seeing some headlines in my Google alerts that refer to this as mediation. It is not -- mediation is a process where two parties try to reach agreement and a mediator facilitates the discussion and tries to move the parties to agreement. This is <em>arbitration</em>, where the arbitrator holds something like a mini-trial (or at least the parties submit briefs) with evidence, witnesses, etc. and then the arbitrator -- basically the judge -- decides who is right and who is wrong. The parties are then stuck with that decision, like it or not. Mediation is successful only if the parties reach an agreement that both support when they walk away, otherwise, nothing happens. An arbitrator, on the other hand, can decide for one party and against another, just like a judge. FYI – I’m seeing some headlines in my Google alerts that refer to this as mediation. It is not — mediation is a process where two parties try to reach agreement and a mediator facilitates the discussion and tries to move the parties to agreement. This is arbitration, where the arbitrator holds something like a mini-trial (or at least the parties submit briefs) with evidence, witnesses, etc. and then the arbitrator — basically the judge — decides who is right and who is wrong. The parties are then stuck with that decision, like it or not.

Mediation is successful only if the parties reach an agreement that both support when they walk away, otherwise, nothing happens. An arbitrator, on the other hand, can decide for one party and against another, just like a judge.

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